The Renault Clio Williams Bullshit Competition

The Renault Clio Williams Bullshit Competition

LATEST UPDATE (15^th September 2003)
After the first 83 votes had been placed, the Bullshit Competition Results looked like this:-

1^st place - Kai Schrödter - 82%
2^nd place - Michael Ober
3^rd place - Marc Gölz
4^th place - Dr. Dirk Jabusch

Congratulations!

The counter was reset on 1^st September 2002 by the Provider - further updates to follow here!

As a result of the responses that we received over a period of almost one year after we first decided to sell our Renault Clio Williams Series I, I have decided to list a summary of the fiasco here and to include the best (or worst?) of the correspondance here - and to add the possibility for YOU to cast your votes for the winners of our Clio Williams Bullshit Competition Award here. No prizes will be given out, since just the fame of appearing on this unique web page should be gratification enough for those featured. The competition was hard-fought, but there were some candidates that stood out way above all other contestants, so producing a short-list of the following four was not difficult ....

Because all contestants are German-speakers, I have translated their written e-mails and claims into English; the original German text can be viewed on cliosalefull-g.html.

The ASU (exhaust gas emissions test) and TÜV (German roadworthiness test) for our Clio Williams expired in March and April 2001 respectively. In order to renew these, it would have been necessary to fit a new catalyser (the internal plates rattled on tickover). Additionally, all four original Michelin tyres should have been replaced (they still have lots of tread, but were manufactured in April 1992). Because we were not using the car, we decided to sell the Clio Williams with a fresh TÜV & ASU, and placed the following advert on the Clio Williams page of our web site ....

For Sale

Since we are not using the Clio Williams, and the insurance premiums in Germany are horrific (DM460 / £145 per year for third party only with 17 years no-claims bonus, two named drivers only, kept in single garage, limited to 5000 miles per year), if you could give this car a good home, offers in the region of £ 6.600 or DM 21.000 could see you as the new owner of this exceptional Williams.
The price includes a Panasonic radio/cassette unit, 8 way hi-fi speaker system, almost unused winter tyres on steel rims, and for the real Williams enthusiast - two Williams Grand Prix Engineering wine bottles (one red, one white, but both empty!) and WGPE napkins!

Enough of the introductions already, and let's get on with the Bullshit .....

We soon received an E-Mail from Kai Schrödter - a frustrated wanna-be-a-professional-racing-cyclist from Bönnigheim (near Stuttgart), who spent so much of his time falling off his bicycle in local events that he gave up his job in late 2002 to try and practice staying on two wheels full-time! Well, if his Mummy and Daddy are prepared to sponsor him, and since he didn't have much of a job or career to loose in the first place, then why not sponge off the old folks ....
His main interest in our Clio Williams was whether the rev. limiter had been raised from 6500 rpm to 7200 rpm !!

In his next E-Mail Kai claimed to own three Clio Williams already!

After that, we heard no more from Kai, until we advertised the Clio Williams on http://www.mobile.de on 15^th October 2001.

One of the first people to respond was none other than - Kai Schrödter.
Hmmm, so you have sold your Swiss Championship AND your Group A ex-Renault Works Williams, and covered over 41.000 km in your normal Williams in the last few months - you have been busy, and must have had a lot of good weather since mid-July !!

Kai then telephoned us on Wednesday (17^th October 2001) and verbally agreed to purchase the car for only DM 19.000 (without a new TÜV & ASU), and assured us that he would either tow the Clio back to the Stuttgart area on a trailer, or drive it back slowly (after he had arranged for the appropriate insurance cover and collected temporary registration plates).

He then decided on Friday evening that he couldn't wait the few hours until Saturday !

Kai drove up from Kirchplatz 11, 74537 Bönnigheim (Tel. 0172 - 6449440) together with an accomplice on Saturday 20^th October in a Skoda Oktavia Estate. On their arrival, whilst Kai introduced himself to us, his accomplice (we established several months later that this long-haired creature actually had a name - Diethard Obenland) took out a tool kit and began to remove the spark plugs, poke the chassis with a screwdriver, kick the tyres, etc. - all without any introduction or explanation to us ! After inspecting the car for over 90 minutes, Diethard insisted on taking the Williams out for a test drive. Although we explained clearly and repeatedly that our insurance cover was restricted to the two of us as named drivers only, and that the Williams could not legally be driven on public roads because of the elapsed TÜV and ASU certificates, we agreed that Diethard could drive the Clio 100 metres to the end of the cul-de-sac. Diethard then proceeded to drive on public roads for over 4 kms, before returning and stating that he could not find any faults with the car. After this, Kai offered us DM 1.000 less than previously agreed (because he didn't want the winter tyres on steel rims, the radio/cassette or the rear seats, and the timing belt had not been changed in the six years of our ownership. We eventually agreed to split the difference, and Kai paid DM 18.500 in cash and signed a Sales Contract.

Kai then set out to drive the 320 km home in the Clio with Diethard in the Skoda (remember, they had not arranged for any temporary registration plates or insurance cover).
Only 45 minutes and 99 km later (and after stopping to refuel with petrol, so his average speed on the Autobahn was almost 160 kph), Kai telephoned us, pleading for help - the Clio was losing oil onto the exhaust (and hence the passenger compartment was filling up with smoke!), now had a top speed of only 150 kph, and zero oil pressure. Kai stated that he suspected a blown cylinder head gasket, but he could not leave the car anywhere to be recovered later by a breakdown service (because of its highly illegal state), so he wanted to drive back to our house!
Surprisingly, both Kai and the Clio Williams survived the 99 km return journey, arriving almost 2 hours later. Although we were in no way obliged to do so, we returned the cash that he had paid for the car (but retained a DM 1.000 deposit), recovered his copy of the original Sales Contract, and signed a new Sales Contract (including his written request that we take the Clio to a Renault garage, and obtain an estimate to repair the Clio at his expense).

THIS WAS A HUGE AND EXPENSIVE MISTAKE ON OUR PART, TO TRY TO HELP Kai - BECAUSE WE TRUSTED HIM !!

We towed the Clio to the main Renault dealer for this area, Renault Rhein-Sieg - they informed both parties on Monday 22.10.2001 that the plates inside the catalyser had been blown backwards against the exit pipe by the pressure of exhaust gases at high revs. Under continued heavy load, the catalyser had become very hot indeed - so hot, that these plates had melted and then fused into place (explaining the dramatic loss of power, since the exhaust gases could not escape properly), the rubber right-hand driveshaft gaiter had melted (causing the grease it usually contains around the universal joint to be thrown back onto the catalyser and exhaust pipes, explaining the "oil" loss and burning smoke), and the cable from the oil pressure sender to the dashboard guage had burnt away (explaining the apparent loss of oil pressure). In order to correct all these faults, Renault Rhein-Sieg quoted DM 2.300 (including all parts, labour and tax).

We then informed Kai that the damage had been caused by the faulty catalyser, and asked him to confirm the earlier arrangements for him to return on the following Saturday to collect and pay the balance for the Clio.
Kai claimed that the Renault dealer had not told him how much the repairs would cost, that he had no time to collect the car next weekend, that he no longer wanted to purchase the car, and would happily forfeit the DM 1.000.- deposit to go towards the costs of repair.

We then suggested that if Kai signed and returned two copies of a waiver, and we managed to sell the Clio to someone else (before the 15^th November 2001), that we would then (but only then) countersign and return one copy of the waiver to him, thereby releasing him from his legal obligation to proceed with the Sales Contract.

This concept was obviously much too complicated for Kai to understand, because within 36 hours Kai was threatening to pass on all correspondance - including Obenland's statement as a witness - to his solicitor, unless we returned a signed copy within a few hours !! Despite another attempt from us to explain the situation to Kai, he still didn't understand, and insisted that the waiver be returned instantly.

After another explanation (and a threat to involve our solicitor if he passed the matter on to his solicitor), Kai finally seemed to understand, and agreed to allow us some time to try to sell the car on his behalf !!

However, it was obvious that the main "interested party" was probably involved with Kai, so we decided to stop wasting our time and enforce the Sales Contract, and offered Kai free storage of the Clio until the end of the year, to enable him to make arrangements to collect the Clio.

Kai had decided to ignore all of our E-Mails and the deadline of 2^nd November 2001 that we had set. We informed him that we had appointed a solicitor to enforce the Sales Contract, and gave him a second deadline of 15^th November 2001.

On our solicitors' advice, we applied to the Courts in Heilbronn (the nearest County Courts to Bönnigheim, where Kai lives) to enforce the Sales Contract and recover the balance of DM 17.500 due to us (plus the DM 91,76 that I had to pay to Renault Rhein-Sieg for the estimate to repair the Clio, and the Court costs and charges to be levied by our solicitor, and the cost of storing the Clio since last October, plus interest at 5% per annum above the bank base rate on the outstanding balance due). Kai also appointed a solicitor (Bernd Altmann in Bönnigheim) and issued a counter-claim against us - his solicitor applied for (and was granted) an extension from January 28^th to February 11^th 2002, and a further extension until February 15^th before submitting their response (which was very sparing with the truth) with a copy to ourselves.

Kai's case rested entirely on whether or not I had informed him that the catalyser was faulty before the (first) Sales Contract was signed. Kai denied a conversation that we had together before the sale - when I informed him that the catalyser must be replaced, he said that this was not a problem, since he had replaced the catalyser on one of his Clio Williams with an (illegal) straight-through pipe (which both improved the sound and performance of his Clio), and he would fit this spare catalyser to "my" Clio to get it through the ASU (exhaust gas emission) test. Instead of this, Kai now claimed that when I demonstrated the rattling noise on tickover from the faulty catalyser before the sale, that I had explained (and managed to successfully convince both Kai and Diethard) that this noise came from the rear silencer !! How stupid can Kai and Diethard really be - the rear silencer is at the other end of the Clio from the front-mounted engine, almost three metres distant.

The court hearing was finally set for March 14^th at 10:00am in Heilbronn, during which it was agreed that Kai should pay Euro 1.500 towards my legal fees and court costs (which will total ca. Euro 1.700) in addition to his share of the legal fees and court costs (again ca. Euro 1.700), and we were free to try to sell the car on to someone else, so that the case could be settled without any further court involvement.
Kai had to agree to or turn down these conditions in writing before March 22^nd 2002 (he agreed), and we had to agree to or turn down these conditions in writing before April 11^th 2002.

Although Kai had a very weak case, the number of lies and ridiculous claims that he came up with were both amazing and alarming (perhaps Diethard Obenland should take some of the credit here). Kai had the huge advantage of being covered by legal aid insurance, and we had no such cover (then). This meant that if either of us did not accept the out-of-court settlement:-
a) if we won the case, Kai would have to pay us for the Clio and the compensation, but his legal aid insurance would pay for both his and our solicitor and court costs - and at least Kai would have the Clio to show for it
b) if Kai won the case, we would have to pay both his and our solicitor and court costs - which could easily amount to between Euro 5.000 and Euro 10.000 - and Kai would not have to pay anything
c) if we both agreed to the suggested out-of-court settlement, Kai would have to pay about ca. Euro 2.850 (after his legal aid insurance contributions of ca. 11%), and we would have to pay ca. Euro 1.300 (our portion of our legal costs, plus the repairing the additional damage that Kai caused to the Clio, and storage for 6 months)
Obviously, if Kai thought that he had a chance of winning - option b) above - Kai would not have accepted the suggested out-of-court settlement - but he did.
If we had legal aid insurance, we would not have had the (albeit small) risk of huge solicitor and court costs, so we would not have accepted the out-of-court settlement - but we decided to end the fiasco and keep the Clio (isn't life tough?!), in the knowledge that Kai will have paid out Euro 2.850 for absolutely nothing - but as Diethard promised us when they returned the Clio to us on the evening of 20^th October 2001, he got Kai out of the Sales Contract (won the battle, lost the war !!). Only the solicitors have gained out of this incident, but at least we still have our Clio Williams (which is already back on the road, so that we can enjoy it) - and Kai can also continue to enjoy all of the splendid three Clio Williams that he allegedly owns !!

Moving on to our next contender for the BULLSHIT AWARD, Michael Ober first contacted us by E-Mail the day after Kai returned back to Bönnigheim (21.10.02).

If Michael lives in Austria, why does he have http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp tagged on to his e-mails ? (.de is Germany, .at is Austria). We will ask him to explain that later on.

After explaining the current situation to Michael, he claimed that he wanted to purchase the Clio.
He offered to send us a Sales Contract by E-Mail (but he had to go to a GERMAN web site to download a sales contract in Austria? How uncivilised!) Strangely, Michael also didn't want the winter tyres, radio or loudspeakers. However, compared to Kai's three complete Clio Williams', Michael only had shelves full of spare parts.

We had already filled out a legally-binding ADAC Sales Contract by hand, and have repeatedly requested a fax number or postal address (in Austria or wherever) to send this to him. But why does Michael insist on us filling out this Contract electronically and returning it via e-mail ?
And why doesn't Michael contact the purchasor directly - you know Kai, don't you ?
Now that you've got our bank account details, you could put your money where your mouth is, and transfer a deposit to secure the car ?

Michael then claimed that the free hotmail E-Mail Provider prevented him from sending a Sales Contract to us (although my German E-Mail Provider had allowed me to send him a Sales Contract!)

After we had sent Michael the chassis and vehicle registration document numbers that he repeatedly requested, he confirmed on 23.10.01 that he would visit us on Saturday (27.10.01) with a trailer, to pay for and collect the Clio (although he would have to pay DM 500 in advance to the Customs!)

Michael then claimed
a) that there are no Internet Providers in Austria (which explained his free hotmail account in Germany ?!), and
b) that he didn't know Kai !!
I don't believe that Austria is so backwards. I am in frequent contact with customers at work in Austria, and mysteriously they have managed to obtain both private and commercial e-mail addresses with .at in them
If Michael is certain that he doesn't know Kai, it must be sheer coincidence that another person called "Michael Ober" (with exactly the same e-mail address) placed this entry in Kai's website guest book. More BULLSHIT !!!

Michael then blew away the tiny possibility in our minds that he was a genuine purchasor by listing the requirements laid down to him in a six hour discussion at the Customs Office. Unfortunately, he claimed to have had this discussion on 26.10.01, which is a Public Holiday in Austria (but not in Germany!) - perhaps a resident of Austria would have known this?

We offered to drop the sales price by DM 500, so that he could visit us to view the car at our expense, and collect it at a later date. Michael agreed, and said that he would probably get the train on Sunday 28.10.01, and we offered to collect him from the main railway stations.

We couldn't resist asking Michael to explain how he managed to find such a helpful civil servant at the Customs Office on a Public Holiday. His initial reply was to postpone his visit until the following weekend, and send us a photograph of "his" rally Clio Williams. When I placed this photograph on my Clio Williams web page, Michael sent us a very threatening E-Mail, claiming that there are factory secrets on this car !! This was a serious attempt to win first place on the BULLSHIT AWARDS - or perhaps Michael doesn't want the real owner of this car to see this photograph with a credit to Michael underneath it?

The next morning Michael explained that he went to the Austria / Bosnia-Herzogovenia border, which was open on a Public Holiday, because Bosnia is not in the European Community. Then why ask a Bosnian Customs Official there about importing a car from Germany into Austria?
Michael went on to state that he would store the Clio in Germany for some time, to avoid paying 16% import duty (a duty which, according to the Austrian Government web site, isn't applicable to secondhand cars anyway).

Michael then sent us via E-Mail a signed copy of the ADAC Sales Contract, and promised to pay the full amount in cash when he collected the Clio. He now claims that he will lose DM 500 in exchanging the money between Schillings and DM - but wasn't this the amount that the Customs wanted for the paperwork to import the car?

Michael also thinks that a verbal contract already exists. No, Michael, you have got it wrong ! A VERBAL contract does not result from WRITTEN E-Mail correspondance. However, if we thought that the story that you had given us until now was true, we might have been inclined to enforce this sale based on the WRITTEN documentation (including the Sales Contract that you had signed and returned to us) - but you would have to be who you claimed to be for this to be enforceable. We were not able to trace the address that you gave us (Am Vorhof 24, A-8010 Graz), and you are not listed in the telephone directory in Graz (or anywhere else in Austria). The only other means of contact (apart from an untraceable hotmail.com e-mail account- which, incidentally, no longer exists !) that you had given us was a (non-existant) phone number (0043-699-10408580).
And when you phoned us that evening to discuss the car, we could hear someone (perhaps Kai ?) whispering to you in the background during your long "thinking pauses".

As Kai's second deadline of 15.11.01 approached, Michael sent us several further E-Mails requesting that we signed and returned a copy of the Sales Contract to him. I pointed out that I didn't believe that this contract was valid (otherwise I could enter a sales price of, say, DM 49,999 and force him to pay this amount for the car !!), and after a few cross words, the correspondance stopped.

I contacted Michael again on 30.03.02 (after the court hearing), and Michael agreed to collect and pay for the Clio on 13.04.02 - just two days after we had to confirm in writing to the courts whether we would accept the out-of-court settlement or not.

Michael still claimed to want to buy the Clio, but refused to transfer a deposit, because he didn't trust even his own neighbours. I'm very glad that we don't live in Austria (or whichever rough area Michael lives in) - our neighbours are very trustworthy indeed !!

And the next contestant for the much-desired BULLSHIT AWARD is Marc Gölz.

Marc first contacted us just after the court hearing, and because he was working in Hamburg but lived in Munich, wanted to visit us at the beginning of the following week (just before the court deadline expired).

Marc then offered repeatedly to transfer the money for the Clio, in order to secure the deal. We forwarded our bank account details and requested a fax number, so that we could send a copy of the Sales Contract to Marc.
Unfortunately, Marc only has access to a fax machine in his office in Munich, and was not prepared to go in over a weekend (how keen is he to buy the Clio?), so requested that we scan it in and send it via E-Mail !! Why does everyone want a scanned version of the Sales Contract? What is wrong with a faxed copy (apart from the fact that it isn't quite so easy to change or modify, and is more easily enforceable in court)? And why does everyone use free and untraceable (hotmail.com or web.de) e-mail addresses? Are all these purchasors names just fictional, with the e-mail addresses registered to Kai?

We offered Marc the option of transferring just a deposit of Euro 1000 to secure the Clio, and we would store the car for the next seven weeks. Marc agreed to this, but ignored yet another of our requests for a fax number.
Up until this point, Marc's story seemed almost believable .... but he fell at the last hurdle, failing to transfer either a deposit or the full amount, never giving us any contact possibilities apart from an untraceable web.de e-mail address, and had conveniently offered to meet up with us at the airport just over one hour after the 17:00 deadline set by the Court. He would collect the Clio the next morning with a trailer (he never explained how, perhaps he planned to bring this as hand-luggage on the Lufthansa flight from Hamburg?)
Apart from Kai and ourselves (plus the solicitors), no-one else knew of the exact deadline (we had told everyone that it was 12:00 noon) - another coincidence ? Well maybe, but we have not heard any more from Marc since this e-mail !!

And so to the final contestant for the BULLSHIT AWARD - Dr. Dirk Jabusch.

Dirk first contacted us via E-Mail just two days before the court deadline expired. As soon as we had explained that to him (as if he didn't already know), Dirk offered to transfer the purchase price immediately. After informing Dirk of our bank account details, he actually gave us a fax number, and stated that he would transfer the money within the next hour!
And you may be surprised to read that, although we faxed through all the requested details including completed and signed copies of the Sales Contract, we have heard no more from Dr. Dirk Jabusch since then !!

Oddly enough some idiot (illegally) readvertised the car on 5^th February 2002 on http://www.mobile.de - most of the details were correctly entered, except for the very low price. Everyone that we have spoken to about this (including the Criminal Police) agrees with our feeling that Kai placed this advert, but this cannot be easily proven. We would like to apologise here to all the people who wasted their time and money contacting us for further information. We immediately asked http://www.mobile.de to delete this advertisement, but only the person who originally inserted it is authorisied to delete or make any changes to it (because you need a reference number, which is issued when the advert is inserted). Very funny, whoever you are, perhaps the straps on your straightjacket be tightened up a little! I have passed this issue on to the Criminal Police in Siegburg, hopefully they will be in contact with you shortly.

So, now that the evidence has been presented, we come to the BULLSHIT AWARDS.

CONGRATULATIONS to all of the entrants, even those that only fired off a few e-mails and thought that their efforts would be sufficient for a podium placing - you obviously had underestimated the competition here ....

Dr. Dirk Jabusch - a very late entry, but full of it nevertheless.

Marc Gölz - an excellent performance, considering that he only entered the competition ten days before the closing date.

Michael Ober - commisserations, you were so close - this stunning performance included some of the best Bullshit that we have heard in our lifetime.

Kai Schrödter - such a professional Bullshitter, no-one else had much of a chance - this can only come from a Grade 1 @rsehole!

Now we come to the part where YOU can cast your votes for the CLIO WILLIAMS BULLSHIT AWARDS. You don't have to make a selection in all the boxes, but when you have entered your choices, simply click on the "Submit Vote" box. You can only submit your vote once, and can "View Results" from the other voters to date - clicking on this text will open a new window on another web site, so you can easily return to this site afterwards.

Clio Williams Bullshit Award Ballot Box
Clio Williams Bockmist Preis Urne

Please vote for your 1^st choice
Bitte stimmen Sie hier darüber ab, wer den ersten Platz verdient

Kai Schrödter
Michael Ober
Marc Gölz
Dr. Dirk Jabusch

Please vote for your 2^nd choice
Bitte stimmen Sie hier darüber ab, wer den zweiten Platz verdient

Kai Schrödter
Michael Ober
Marc Gölz
Dr. Dirk Jabusch

Please vote for your 3^rd choice
Bitte stimmen Sie hier darüber ab, wer den dritten Platz verdient

Kai Schrödter
Micheal Ober
Marc Gölz
Dr. Dirk Jabusch

Please vote for your 4^th choice
Bitte stimmen Sie hier darüber ab, wer den vierten Platz verdient

Kai Schrödter
Michael Ober
Marc Gölz
Dr. Dirk Jabusch

Do you think that Michael Ober was involved with Kai Schrödter?
Glauben Sie, daß Michael Ober etwas mit Kai Schrödter zu tun hatte?

Yes / Ja
No / Nein

Do you think that Marc Gölz was involved with Kai Schrödter?
Glauben Sie, daß Marc Gölz etwas mit Kai Schrödter zu tun hatte?

Yes / Ja
No / Nein

Do you think that Dr. Dirk Jabusch was involved with Kai Schrödter?
Glauben Sie, daß Dr. Dirk Jabusch etwas mit Kai Schrödter zu tun hatte?

Yes / Ja
No / Nein

View Results / Ergebnis ansehen

If you have got this far, and still want to see what Kai Schrödter actually looks like, you can visit his "excellent" web site at

Kai Schroedter ( Kb)

www.kai-schroedter.de.
Better still, leave an entry on his Guest Book (temporarily suspended, see here) or send him an e-mail at Kai Schrödter (private), Walter Traub (work) or WS-Werbedrucke (work), and tell him what you think of him.

And if someone with any of the above e-mail addresses ever contacts you with a view to purchasing your car, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!

I attempted to warn other people about Kai by placing an entry in the Guest Book on his web site - click here for further amusing details, and to see just how low Kai and his "Webmaster" can sink with their abuse and insults!

And to some of the timewasters (you should know who you are!): offers of only DM 14.000 are insulting, even if you have to pay a luxury tax of DM 2.500 to import the car into Holland.

Even sadder is the person who doen't even want to buy a Clio Williams, but still looks on www.mobile.de AND comments on the price via E-Mail.

Not all the timewasters contacted us via E-Mail - Michael Haas drove down from Köln several times to look at the Clio, and has now allegedly decided to buy a Merceded Benz SLK - an obvious choice, very similar to a Clio Williams !?! Is it any coincidence that (according to this web site Michael Haas is also a keen cyclist, riding for the RSV Optik Nosch/Centurion Ebnet team ?? Would Kai have called in yet another cycling friend, this time someone who lives much nearer to us, to try and fool us into thinking that we could sell the car elsewhere and let him out of his contractual obligations ??

Kai can be extremely grateful that he had appointed an excellent solicitor, and the solicitor which I appointed to act on my behalf was extremely incompetent - because that is the only reason why we could not enforce the original sales contract !!!

Of course, we did receive a few pleasant E-Mails, such as this one from Christian Hagen, or even this one from Ed Healey.

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